Welcome to my Blog!

Welcome to my Blog!

Here you will find the best collection of Becker Knife & Tool information anywhere on the internet!

If this is your first time here I would start at the beginning with the intro page and then follow the numbered bar at the top.

***UPDATE***
You will find some new ads have been posted as well as some photos have been traded out for higher quality versions. 

Thanks!

BK9HH Identification.

Here we have a standard Camillus bk9 with clip point. Then the early Camillus bk9 with no clip, lastly the Camillus bk9HH (Hog Hunter). The bk9HH is what's important here. If you are looking for a bk9HH how would you know it's actually a HH version if it doesn't come with a labeled box? I've seen Camillus bk9s with sharpened clips that have tried to be passed of as the HH. Sometimes people just like to sharpen the clips because they like it that way. So just because you found a Camillus bk9 with a sharp clip, that doesn't mean it's a HH, even if the seller claims it is. As you can see, a real HH has the clip ground back much farther than the standard so it's easy to tell a real from a standard that has been sharpened second hand.

Laserlyte TacTool Bayonet

Short post time.

So back in the earlier days of the Kabar-Becker era Laserlyte licensed some Kabar blade designs to use on one of their new products... pistol bayonets. While I can't say I have a lot of personal insight into the market of pistol bayonets, and frankly I'm basically still very confused as to why there is even a market for pistol bayonets, I've come around to just label these as novelties. 

Just know: to anyone who thinks these are not novelties, I think less of you. 

So anyway, why am I talking about this here on the blog? Well, because one of the licensed blade designs was the Becker bk3 TacTool. 

Now I really don't get this. If a bayonet's job is to stab someone, why on earth would you want a chisel ground, pry bar tipped blade for a bayonet. You are certainly not going to pull out your Glock and try to pry open anything. So what's the point? 

Thats it, all done, very short (and minor) Becker history lesson.

Are Camillus Beckers Better Than Ka-Bar Beckers?

So another long time coming post. If you want to just skip it and get the main point, well here you go:

Camillus Beckers are not better than Kabar Beckers

Now for those wishing for some more detail let's carry on into the latest edition of my ramblings. 

Ok so let's break this down. We will discuss this in a few categories:

1. Steel

2. Heat Treat

3. Fit and Finish

4. Handles
5. Sheaths

So here's the point I want to make about the steel: many times when you see an old Camillus Becker for sale the listing usually goes something like this: "This is made back when Camillus was making them out of good steel, not the crap steel Kabar puts out." This is ridiculous, it's basicity the same steel! And if you want to really get down to the specific details: the 1095CV from Kabar has a very slight upper hand. So much of this "Camillus is better" nonsense comes from asshole sellers on eBay tying their hardest to hype them up as much as possible. Don't buy into it.

First off, let me say I AM NOT A METALLURGIST!

This is all info I have found online from trusted sources. 

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong! 

So the Camillus Beckers were made out of a version of Sharon Steel 0170-06. Camillus called it their "exclusive" 0170-06C. This 0170-06C steel is identical to the famous Cold Steel Carbon V. Camillus was making the Carbon V knives for Cold Steel back then, so that gave Camillus access to it. The only thing was, the deal Cold Steel made with Camillus said they couldn't call it Carbon V. So they added that "C" to the end of 0170-06. 

Kabar makes the Beckers out of 1095CV. 1095CV has the same make up as the Sharon Steel 0170-06. So the only difference between the Camillus 0170-06C (Carbon V) and regular 1070-06 (1095CV) is that the Camillus steel subtracted the nickel. 

Side note: The difference between 1095 and 1095CV is the 1095CV has an addition of nickel as well as the "CV" chromium and vanadium. Which I think makes it pretty close to O1 tool steel. 

So basically what all that above is saying is that the steels are incredibly similar! So similar that an average user could not tell them apart from performance.  However, the Kabar 1095CV has the advantage. The additional nickel in the Kabar Beckers adds some better stain resistance and more edge toughness. Again, these advantages are very minor and hardly noticeable. So, what I'm saying is: don't ever let anyone tell you Camillus Beckers have better steel. 

So number two, heat treat. I don't know anything about the blade heat treating process so this will be short. The word on the street is Dan Maragni was in charge of setting up the Cold Steel Carbon V heat treat process at Camillus, which also included the other blades at Camillus using that steel: all the Beckers. By all accounts the heat treat on the Camillus Beckers was wonderful and by all accounts the Kabar heat treat is wonderful. So I'm not sure one is really better than the other. I have accounts that both companies have had a mistake in some of the heat treat batches and some blades broke. So it's hard for me to say one is better than the other, but Ethan says that Kabar is better. So the win goes to Kabar. 

Here's the quote:

So onto the fit and finish. 

Kabar wins hands down. It seems like every day at Camillus was 4 O'clock on a Friday. The quality control was garbage. Some people attribute this to the fact that they were going bankrupt, which may be a contributing factor, but it seems primary grinds were off from the beginning.

Here is a Camillus bk2. The edge heights are uneven from each other and the thickness at the tip clocks in at 0.085"!

So I know it may seem like I'm fussing over nothing here but think about this: the edges, while uneven, are not that bad and look to be pretty thin. So think about how obtuse that edge is! If the edge thickness at the tip is 0.085 and in the middle 0.055, the guy at the factory who put the final edge on it must have done it at about a 50 degree angle!

Here we have a Camillus bk7.

Two things to note here. First, the primary grind line is extremely crooked near the stamp. This is on like 50% of Camillus Becker primary grind lines. Sometimes its only crooked on one side and not the other. Don't just take my word for it, go to Worthpoint or look at sold listings on Ebay. This is the worst one I could find in my collection because I sold all the awful ones that were really messed up.

Second thing to see, the edge comes inward for about the first inch from the handle. So whoever was at the grinder putting the final edges on really pushed in a bit to hard. I know it may be hard to believe but both these flaws are on TONS and TONS of Camillus Beckers.

I'm sorry I don't have more extreme examples of it but I got rid of all of my bad ones. If you have a good eye just check out Google Images and I'm sure you will find more like this. It can be really hard to see some of these minor details in listing photos. I have sadly been disappointed many times opening the box when it comes in the mail after winning an auction.

On this Camillus bk10 you will see a massive difference in the primary grind height on each side of the knife.

This is also very common and sometimes very hard to see in listing photos.

Here is the edge thicknesses from a Camillus bk4... absolutely horrible. That fact that in a straight on photo you can see the silver sides on the edge is sad.

Here is the edge on the bk1... just sad and pathetic. I know there are one or two of you out there reading this right now thinking I'm and idiot. Thinking "oh, well you need a thick edge on a chopper" or "just convex it, it will be fine" NO. Go check out a nice quality hatchet sometime. You will find the edges to be much thinner than what you see on most production "chopper" knives. This bk1 without some major surgery is worthless.

As you can probably tell from above one of my biggest complaints against the Camillus Becker's are the edges. They left the primary grind angle too thick so the edges, are as you can imagine, too thick as well. This isn't the end of the world, you can always convex the crap out of it and knock the shoulders off. However, it is my opinion that while these fixes can help with an obtuse edge, it will never be as good as a blade that had the primary grind taken down to the right thickness from the start.

Here are just a random few I pulled out and measured to prove the point.  All these measurements were taken from the same spot on each blade.

I'm a big believer in judging a knife by how it cuts. After all, that's the number one thing it should do! So less edge thickness equals less resistance and less cut angle to go through something.  Yes I understand in lots of applications you would want a thicker edge (cleavers and choppers come to mind), but I also think most production makers are scared people will break their knives and leave the edges too thick. Kabar seems to understand that you can still make an indestructible knife with a great thin working edge. That's another win for Kabar!

So the handles.

Camillus handles were made out of Grivory. The Kabar handles have been made out of tons of different stuff: Zytel, Hylon, and now I believe it's Ultramid. I really couldn't tell you the difference between any of these. They all seem to be polymer and very close to being the same thing. I could be wrong, but I believe the actual names such as "Grivory" and "Zytel" are just trademark names. So in theory what I think is really going on is: Company X could be making a polymer they call Grivory. Company Y is making the exact same polymer but they would have to come up with their own name so they call it Zytel. So really when we say the handles changed from Hylon to Ultramid, what I think we are really saying is Kabar changed the company they buy the polymer from. Anyone who knows more about these types of polymer feel free to correct me on anything off! I encourage it!

The only main difference is that the Camillis Grivory handles are slightly thicker. Of course Kabar does offer aftermarket micarta that is also a bit thicker than their stock handles. I feel like even if you have massive hands the extra thickness from the Camillus handles really dosen't make enough of a difference to justify it. Usually it seems like for the price of a Camillus Becker on eBay you could just buy a new Kabar Becker with micarta for the same price, so again why buy the Camillus?

Lastly is the sheaths.

You might think Camillus would win because they put out the bk1-5 with kydex sheaths, but no. The kydex was very nice, but the retention you get with a real kydex sheath was not there. The sheath was designed to be ambidextrous so sadly the retention still came down to just a nylon button strap. The green nylon sheaths were very simple and low quality. The current Kabar sheaths are MOLLE compatible. They have an extra secure belt loop that you can put on or off without having to take your belt off. They also have tons of eyelets to tie it onto things (or to tie things onto it). The front pocket is much better at expanding and has a plastic slot for a bk13 or other small knife. It is important to note some old Kabar bk5, 7, and 9 sheaths were not MOLLE equipped, but all current ones are. People always like to whine about the stock nylon sheaths, but think about this, no other sheaths (even most customs) have as many features and carry options.

So let's start to close this one down. Question: why should you buy a Camillus Becker over a Kabar? Answer: you shouldn't. The Kabar is better and that's just how it is, but all you get from the internet is Camillus hype. People use this hype to either inflate the value of one they are selling or to inflate the value of their collection. If I have to read one more Camillus bk7 listing on ebay that starts out like "This was made back in the day by Camillus before those garbage Kabar people ruined them. This one is so much higher quality and infinitely better steel." I'm going to go CRAZY...

I hope that what you gather from all that I'm saying isn't that Camillus Beckers are bad, because they are 100% not. Ethan would not have let his designs be made if they weren't up to standards. A Camillus Becker will still perform and last a lifetime. What I want you to take away from this is: don't believe the hype and question those who create it. 

Now, of course, there are a select few reasons to buy a Camillus Becker. The bk1 and bk6 come to mind, Kabar dosen't make those models. So if you want one you're going to have to buy the Camillus version.

If you're a collector then by all means buy them, but understand you're paying more not because they are better than what's being produced, but because the company went under and they are no longer made. This makes them collectibles.

Another reason to buy one is if you're looking for any of the specials like the bk71, bk9HH, etc. If you know what these are then you know these really should only be bought by collectors anyway.

A lot of the time the question comes up of: if I find a Camillus Becker for the same price as a Kabar, should I get it? NO. If you are going to use it get the one with the warranty! This happens a lot with those tactical assholes who are holding out trying to find a Camillus bk7 so they can feel cooler and create more hype.

Now if you can get a Camillus Becker for a fair bit cheaper than a Kabar, go for it, you're getting a great deal. I'd assume if you're paying less than a new one it would be used, but sometimes people don't know what they have and an amazing deal pops up. Just keep in mind if it breaks there's no warranty.

Next, there are some differences within the models which might justify for some to spend the extra money on the Camillus versions. For example: a Camillus bk2 is thinner than a Kabar bk2, and a Camillis bk9 is thicker than a Kabar bk9. Similarly to those examples, there are a few differences between Camillus and Kabar Beckers. I talk about all of them HERE in my Compare and Contrast post. When it comes down to it, none of these differences really affect how they perform drastically enough to matter. I feel like I'm probably one of the only people allowed to actually make claims like this because I own a full set of the Camillus Beckers. Two sets of them really... My first set I acquired was all users and I slowly gathered a set of all new in box for the collection. I've used them all and the Kabars are just better. I have no reason to lie, a lot of what I'm saying here and in other posts on this blog literally de-values the blades in my collection.

So last thoughts here and then we're done. Camillus Beckers are just overall not as good as what we are currently getting from Kabar and I think that's great! Who likes sitting around talking about the good old days way back when, knowing they are all gone. Well guess what people: we are currently in the good old days of Becker knives! Never before have Beckers been made with such good fit and finish, steel, sheaths, quality, value, and with more models to choose from than ever. These are the golden days.

Custom Justin Gingrich Camillus Beckers

So here is a post I'm so happy to finally get out. It's been a draft that I worked on for a long time as I've been adding to bit by bit while I learned more. It was a fun journey that I'm very excited to share with you.

So it seems there was some custom Camillus Beckers that I have never seen before.

I came across this old serrated Camillus bk2 on Ebay and it sparked some questions.

At first glance all I thought was that it's a Camillus bk2 with some homemade handles, aftermarket sheath, and custom finish. That's not uncommon at all, you see at-home custom Beckers pop on on Ebay all the time. The thing is, the seller claimed it was something else. He claimed it was a "special factory order" customized by Justin Gingrich of Ranger Knives. Also claimed they were from blanks sold at the Camillus closing auction. The seller said they were made out of Camillus "OVB" Becker blanks. This of course dosen't make any since. The Camillus OVB (Our Very Best) line did not feature Beckers. So this confuses me, is it a special factory order? As in, Camillus was still open and they produced this? Or was this from the closing auction?

Something else I found interesting is two other claims by the seller. First he claimed they were all a special order for Smokey Mountain Knife Works (SMKW). Second, this was one of the last projects Camillus was doing trying to save their business. Not saying these are true, but I can get behind these last two claims. SMKW has always been a unique place and orders lots of "exclusives" from different companies. It also makes since that this could be one of the last projects Camillus worked on before they closed down. That would certainly explain why we have absolutely no info or old ads about these.  I did some digging around on SMKW and found nothing, but the Camillus days were a really long time ago so there aren't many good breadcrumbs to follow.

Now here is where I found the first breadcrumb and it gets good.  I only found one place with a small thread of evidence. This place happens to have an extremely close proximity to SMKW (only a few hundred yards actually), Buds Gun Shop. Thank God they have the most outdated website around and have never updated anything! Here we strike gold. I found two old listings for "CMBKJG" (thats CaMillus BecKer Justin Gingrich). I found a bk2 and a bk9. This bk2 was non-serrated. They were listed under "Live TV Exclusives"....what? Sounds like something for one of those QVC cable channels? I don't even know what to think about that.

It's very interesting that the micarta handles cover up the extended pommel on the bk9.

Links to these are HERE and HERE.

Something else to add if you Google around at some Ranger knives during that time, sheaths just like the one on the bk9 above were used.

So as you can see the coating on the bk2s are extremely textured and web-like. Where as the coating on the bk9 is a grey color and more smooth. The coating on the bk2s literally looks like it's powder coated over the existing coating. The logos are basically gone because of this.  While the silver/grey bk9 coating is very fine and really dosen't appear to be double layered, you can also still make out the logo clearly.

Here is where it gets better with the second breadcrumb. If you're crazy enough to sort through hundreds and hundreds, hours and hours of pages of old Camillus Becker Ebay listing from Worth Point, yes I'm that crazy, you find these.

So here we have what looks to be a Gingrich custom Camillus bk3. Same handles, same sheath (in a new color), and a new coating.

Here is a bk9 Just like the one from the Buds Gun Shop listing. Same silver/grey coating, sheath, and handles. 

In both the Ebay listings above that I found in Worth Point: neither seller claimed these were Gingrich customs, just customizations.

I recently got lucky and found myself one of these Gingrich bk9s and it is beautiful! Like the ones from Worth Point the seller and listing had no mention that this was customized by Justin Gingrich.

It might be important to note that on my Gingrich bk9 above, it does not have the clip/swedge just like the early Camillus bk9s. The stock photo from the Buds Gun Shop page definitely shows one with the clip. I really can't tell if the one from the Worth Point photo has it or not. However, it makes me think, was it meant to not have the clip? I know tons of people think the bk9 should not have the clip and the Camillus bk9s without the clips do sell for some high prices. If these were a special factory order meant to be an upgraded version of the bk9 could one of those upgrades be the subtraction of the clip point?


Another thing to throw out there is that they are numbered on the inside.

This bk9 has the number 12 on both the L and R handle and on the blade.

The bk2sg has the number 52 on both the L and R handle and on the blade.

So summing up:

So far we know there was a bk2, bk2sg, bk3, and bk9. I wouldn't be shocked at all if a Gingrich bk7 shows up. Who knows how many of the other Becker models this customization was done to. It seems the idea behind it was to put upgraded handles on them, upgraded sheath, and I guess an upgraded coating on them and sell them as custom Beckers that look like Ranger knives?

I don't know if these were sold buy Camillus, or if Justin just bought a bunch of Beckers on his own and customized them. Or maybe Justin bought a bunch of Becker blanks at the Camillus closing auction? Tons of theories possible, but I'm thinking this is not done by Camillus or we would have some old info on it.

***UPDATED***
2/22/19

So I did the smart thing and emailed Justin Gingrich himself to ask about these. So now we have a definitive answer. 

Justin said he did these for SMKW. Ive talked about this on other posts here on the blog, SMKW bought up TONS of stuff at the Camillus closing auction (see my CAM1A1 post HERE). So SMKW bought a bunch of heat treated and non-heat treated Becker blades from the auction and hired Justin Gingrich to finish them so they could sell them. He said he had to do handles, powder coating, and heat treat some. 

If the blank was already heat treated it probably had the coating on it, so that makes the double powder coated bk2s above make since.

So if Camillius went under in 2007, these Gingrich customs were probably made right after that. 

So there we go, that puts together all the mixed up pieces from the story above. So these were not produced by Camillus, or something Justin did on his own. Also dosen't surprise me that Buds Gun Shop got some of these, after all they are next door neighbors with SMKW.

***ANOTHER UPDATE***

Look what I just found on the SMKW website. Link HERE.

Also found an old sale thread on BF from 2013 with a Gingrich bk2. Link HERE.

USN Prototype Becker Dive Knife

So here is a bit more detail about the mystery Blackjack Becker USN dive knife that I have posted in the Blackjack page (Click HERE to view).


I just copied most of this over from my thread on Bladeforums so there might be some format errors.

Now before I begin, there was some doubts about this blade. Some questioned the legitimacy of this blade altogether, or thought it was doctored up years later with the etching/coating to make it something more than it was.

The main points the naysayers have said are 1) The black coated is not from Blackjack. 2) The laser etching is not from Blackjack 3) The edge is not patina'd/tarnished enough for its age.

So going through all this I have proven all these points to the blades legitimacy.


So the mysterious dive knife...

Its a long story and its going to take three nice and minty blackjack beckers to fully explain.

Here are some better photos of the blade.

Lets start off with where I got it. I got it from a guy who happens to live in the same state as Mike. Although there are several hours between them, make any speculations you want from that...

I don't actually know the seller and we didn't talk much. I first ran across him when he tried to sell me a black coated divtul a long time ago (I even made a thread about it here). I wasn't sure it was legit then, but I am sure now (more on that later). All that he knew about this blade was that is was meant to be a dive knife.

*EDIT here is the link to that thread* All the way back in 2015!

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/blackjack-bk3-with-black-coating.1271653/

A dive knife from blackjack fits all the stories I've heard. I have found things online from both Ethan and Mike saying they have been selling tons of divtuls to divers because they make an amazing dive knife even though they were really made to be a sharpened pry bar. So it makes sense that blackjack would be considering making another knife just for the divers.

Here is the quote.

"ResqDivTul: We sold a lot to divers, because they worked well as dive knives. Most people don't realize that what a diver needs most is a pry bar. This is one of the best dive knives you could get-when you ask divers, they'll tell you they need a pry bar more often than they need a cutting edge. And this one works well as a pry bar; also, it's good for cutting yourself out if you get tangled in line. The ResqDivTul is made of hardened steel; most dive knives are made of 304 stainless, which won't take or hold an edge. This one will"

I also have found quotes saying they submitted the divtul to the SEALs and FBI and all sorts of government agencies. The only ones they said actually used them were the SEALs and FBI hostage rescue teams (this is important for later). So if they were submitting designs to the Navy, the U.S.N. makes perfect senses.

So far I do believe this "becker dive knife" (as I've come to call it) was a prototype dive knife and there seems to be a legit reason why the U.S.N. is on the blade.

Ok so why am I going on and on about the divtul and not this prototype. Well time to spill the beans... I believe this blade was made from a divtul blank. The cord grabber hook gives it away. When you lay it on top of a divtul they just about match up on the standard divtul with powder coat. On the black coated divtul, they match almost perfectly.

If you look at the choil in the photo below, it has a dip in the left corner the grinder didn't take out. That dip matches the start of the chisel grind on the regular divtul.

Despite the fact that it looks to be in great condition for its age, I do still believe it was made by blackjack. I really do not think this was altered or changed by anyone years later for better value.

If it is made from a divtul blank then it's 440a stainless, so no patina on the edge from age. It also would make sense of the stainless hardware only found on the divtul.

The only thing that's off is that the dive knife prototype is just a bit longer. However, these blades come from a time when "handmade in the USA" meant more than it does now. So like most blackjack beckers, they might not all be within the same levels of tolerances. Lots of the grind lines on my blackjacks are different even though they are the same blade. If Mike was around that day it probably meant the "one of a kind" stamp was pulled out haha.

So how do I know the black coating is legit? Because it's the same black coating that's on one of my divtuls and I CAN prove that that one is legit.

The department of defense ordered a bunch of divtuls from blackjack. They apparently had two alterations they requested.

1. Black blades to match the uniforms
2. Deeper cut serrations

Here is the quote about that.

Here is the actual order form! Its hard to read but you can make out that it's from the department of defense and they requested deeper serrations.

This black divtul does indeed have deeper cut serrations than the standard model as seen below.

The black coating on the divtul does indeed match the black coating on the dive knife. So I'm calling it legit.

So if all that wasn't enough to prove this blade legit, after I posted the all the stuff above I later asked Mike Stewart (President of Blackjack back then) about it and he confirmed it. 

So long long long after all the above was posted I finally found the missing link. The last piece of uncertainty was the laser etching. Well I found an old blackjack necker proto at Ethan's with laser etching: even in the same font.

So thats it, another prototype for the history books.

Blackjack Becker Divtul XL

The Divtul XL is just what I've been calling this, it's by no means the legit name. I wasn't sure these even existed until about a year ago. A fellow Beckerhead found one on eBay and posted a photo. That photo is super small and terrible quality. Luckily I've found the old listing on Worthpoint.

Here are the photos.

Now if you know your Becker history (you do if you've been reading this blog) you know that there were many shapes and sizes of the Divtul/Tactul from the Cincinnati days, but they are rare. I have never seen a physical Divtul/Tactul Cincinnati Blade. It used to be only the old ad photos and drawings until I was incredibly lucky to have Ethan show me the old snap shots of them in his office that are now in the Cincinnati page HERE. So from Blackjack the only Divtul/ResQ we ever saw in the catalogs and ads was the smaller version in both chrome and non-reflective finish. Check out some of those ads HERE.

So the question is if this larger version was the ResQ and the smaller version was the Divtul? I don't think so and here is why: The old ads, catalogs, and price/order sheets all call it by the singular name "ResQ/Divtul." Yes they did sell them in two categories, them being reflective (Chrome S.S.) and non-reflective (sandblasted). There was never a shred of evidence that there was a larger version. So my guess would be this was a ResQ/Divtul 2.0 or something? Or that they only made a small amount before Blackjack went under. This is just my theory, however it does seem to line up with the story from the auction listing below.

Here are the screen shots from the auction description. I don't know if this is the real story, but this is the only information anywhere online about this larger version. I personally don't know if I believe the production numbers, take everything with a grain of salt.

Here is just an excerpt from a Blackjack catalog the seller included in the listing.

So cool, right? Well: yes and no. 

As a collector finding a new blade that you didn't know existed (and have only ever seen one of in years of looking) and missing the auction, it's like getting kicked in the nuts. I know the guy who won it and he is one of only a few people with a collection like mine. Overall I'm glad it's with another Beckerhead. 

Now that auction was a long time ago, if we fast forward to now I have just recently acquired a Divtul XL of my own.

Check out this beauty!

However, this blade brings both good and bad tidings. I am so happy to have this to add to my collection, but as you can seen this XL is in the chrome finish and not the sandblasted non-reflective finish like the one above. What does this mean for me? Well it means I still have one more to find... great.